Curse

aubee · Mar 02, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

The title of this thread is a bit misleading, though. There is no arguing that the availability of PuGs has diminished....the cause of that is up to debate, however. If any of you doubt that claim, I challenge you to form a PuG (that contains no heroes or henchmen) in The Eternal Grove in less than 30 minutes.

I rarely PUG at all, doing most stuff with guildmates and/or heroes. But because Eternal Grove is such a pill to hero/hench and no guildies were on I joined a PUG in Eternal Grove last weekend that formed in about 5-10 minutes (including re-ordering the group twice.) We ended up with 3 assassins (including my toon), 1 MM, 2 healers, 1 dervish, and an ele. I was doing critical barrage while the other two assassins were straight melee. The two melee sins, the MM and a healer took left while the rest of us went right. And to my utter surprise we took masters easily. Only had one slight problem when the warrior boss showed up on the left side and killed a few folks but the rest of us were able to come over and rez and recover. Lucky to get in such a good group, especially one that formed up that quickly.

Good PUGs are a blast. Bad PUGS...well, at best they can be amusing.

Demilikos · Mar 02, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I too have good luck when it comes to PUG's.

I talk with the group etc. I guess it's my habit from the betas and early days of GW.

It's what makes Guild Wars... Guild wars, to me. :]

All my heros are lvl 20 so I try to find time to bring real people and join other groups whenever I can!

Diddy bow · Mar 02, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

ive never had a bad pug i pugged all of proph and most of cantha

But i found just about all the missions easy to just fly through with some well build heroes and forcing you to take em once in a while deosnt help (got one -- meh ill just hench this) Pugs are definetly more fun its a real shame on newer players...

TheRaven · Mar 02, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Ok, I'll admit. I ragequit last night. This is a first for me, I'm usually very easy going but these guys just got on my nerves. I wasn't in too good of a mood to start with however so I guess I shouldn't have PUGGed.

My monk was in The Wilds and since I need to hone my monking skills, I refuse to hench a mission with her. I will always go with others if possible. I only needed the bonus on this mission so I advertised "LFG for mission and bonus".

3 Warriors had been standing around for awhile trying to form a group and they invited me and a ranger (who is a real life friend) into the group. We also picked up a Necro.

They whispered me and asked if I knew the mission. I said I did and they sounded happy. We warped into the mission and things just went downhill from there. As soon as we warped in, one of the warriors asked us to wait because his friend was busy. (I think all 3 warriors knew each other).

Since we were standing around doing nothing, I asked if everyone knew the bonus. I knew my ranger friend knew it and the Necro said he did. The warriors had no clue what it was. I said that was fine and just to follow me and please don't kill the centaurs.

While waiting and waiting and waiting someone got too close to the initial group and we attacked and killed them.

We then got cussed out for not waiting.

We forged ahead and killed all the initial mobs before the branch off to the bonus. At this point one of the warriors asked everyone to head back to town.

Why?

"Just because"

Nope, not good enough, let's continue on.

I said again that I needed the bonus when they started down the wrong direction. Most of them followed me except for one guy who insisted we were going the wrong way. He eventually followed though. At this point I said again, "don't kill the centaur scouts".

About halfway down the path the 3 warriors decide to charge ahead and of course they charge right up to the centaurs and start attacking even with 3 of us screaming "NOOOO!!!! STOPPPP!!!!!!" at the top of our lungs.

Once the centaurs were dead, I resigned and said we needed to restart. Hey, you guys wanted to go back to town anyways, right? Nope, they wanted to continue on.

At that point, I lost it. I said some things I really shouldn't have and quit. My friend and the Necro popped back into town quickly as well. The 3 warriors showed up about 5-10 minutes later. One of them just started cussing me out for leaving, but one of the others whispered an apology to me.

My friend and I found a 2nd group and restarted. This group was much much nicer and we really had a good time with them.

I guess in retrospect I should have handled it differently. They were obvoiusly young kids. Heck, even the cuss words they were using were aimed at the 7-10 year old age range (Turd, poopyhead). At least I didn't use any adult cuss words either. That's not my style. I think "moron" is the strongest term I'll use online.

trf2374 · Mar 02, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

For every good PuG experience I can think of, I've had 10 bad PuG experiences. Yes, PuGing in any group that doesn't contain morons is a great experience, I've just found it so hard to find such groups. I imagine, that the more experienced are playing now that Nightfall has been out for a while. Wait till Chapter 4 to see all the idiots come back out of the woodwork.

Mouse at Large · Mar 02, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Some of the most fun I've had has been Pugging in THK and FoW

FeuerFrei · Mar 02, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

ive had great times as well....infact 90% of the time...i pug.

mr_groovy · Mar 03, 2007, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

This made me laugh so very hard!!

Now, I can't play melee characters especially well, but I tried out Dervish and found myself in the foreign quarter of Vizunah at lvl 14. I loaded up with non-lvl 20 heroes, and some hench and got full hench from the local quarter. I got Masters on the first try. Level 18 is minimum? You make me laugh!

*wipes tears from eyes*

QFT I remember doing Vizunah back in the day when factions was just out. It took a good Group, be it pug or guild to get Master on that mission. Now I did the mission again last week and it seemed that anet eased up that mission. And we were talking about pugs, and not about Hero/ Henchway.

To bring full potential to a pug team (and no that's not taking hero's with 1337 skills, armor and weapons ) your char must be around lvl 20. I only accept lvl 20 in my team for vizunah. (for foreign Quarter, local I would consider lvl 18). And I self make the effort to lvl my own char's to lvl 20. And it's not like it's time consuming to get to lvl 20 in cantha. All the quests + missions on the starter island will land you to lvl 18. Do some fed ex quests in kaneing center and you're there.

Quote:

Well met!

Excuse my audacity! What determines the minimun, pray tell? As it happens, I have been to Cantha before. My Assassin, Shodan Ki, has a Ranger secondary, skills from Kaineng City (max Exotic armor (chest and leggings were all I could afford at the time, lol), and the knowledge (and Green recurve) of Wo Tan Ki, lvl 20 Ranger, my main character, and the support of his guild, the Knights of Shadowpeak (KoS). However, I shall be certain to call on you before I allow him to go on any more missions, to be certain that he meets the minimum requirements (whatever they are), so as not to give offense (rofl)!

So you're telling me you played a crit ranger, and instead of truely pugging you also had some help of Guildies? Any officer in my guild, including myself would have recommended you to lvl your sin, because a: you have more health to endure, and b: do more damage/ longer interruptions. You get my drift.

About Pugging, I almost hardly ever pug. The times when I pug, most of the players are either not doing there job properly or they simply don't listen and screw up master. Which I end up getting in the second try with Hero/ Henchway. Now if there was only a way for anet to detect idiot players

cyberjanet · Mar 04, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

.

Formed a pug for masters in the Eternal Grove last night in about 5 mins. 4 players and 4 heroes.

Personally, I find a PUG of 4 players and 4 heroes one of the nicest to play. Especially with Teamspeak.

Of course, it's not always appropriate. What I dislike about PUG play mostly is the rudeness towards new players, and the insults that flow when things go wrong. If the mission or quest fails, just regroup, rebuild skills and try again.

Hero-friendly players tend to be more relaxed about that, in my experience.

LONGA · Mar 04, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Luck and Pugs I say.I just got people having a free ride through misson lately.
And dont trust monk with muscle and tattoos becuase they are 55 hp monks.

Skyy High · Mar 04, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGA

And dont trust monk with muscle and tattoos becuase they are 55 hp monks.

Erm, no. My monk's energy armor is the Citadel tatoo armor, becuase that's all there was in Prophecies. It's not just for 55 monks...

kolakoski · Mar 05, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

QFT I remember doing Vizunah back in the day when factions was just out. It took a good Group, be it pug or guild to get Master on that mission. Now I did the mission again last week and it seemed that anet eased up that mission. And we were talking about pugs, and not about Hero/ Henchway.

To bring full potential to a pug team (and no that's not taking hero's with 1337 skills, armor and weapons ) your char must be around lvl 20. I only accept lvl 20 in my team for vizunah. (for foreign Quarter, local I would consider lvl 18). And I self make the effort to lvl my own char's to lvl 20. And it's not like it's time consuming to get to lvl 20 in cantha. All the quests + missions on the starter island will land you to lvl 18. Do some fed ex quests in kaneing center and you're there.

So you're telling me you played a crit ranger, and instead of truely pugging you also had some help of Guildies? Any officer in my guild, including myself would have recommended you to lvl your sin, because a: you have more health to endure, and b: do more damage/ longer interruptions. You get my drift.

About Pugging, I almost hardly ever pug. The times when I pug, most of the players are either not doing there job properly or they simply don't listen and screw up master. Which I end up getting in the second try with Hero/ Henchway. Now if there was only a way for anet to detect idiot players

Well met!

When I began playing Guild Wars, my attitude was, if anything, stricter than yours. I did not consider joining a guild because I felt that I had nothing to offer. I wanted to have a certain level of skill first. I henched 99% of the time, having the same attitude about joining a PUG. I started with Prophecies, and my Ranger, Wo Tan Ki, took a long time to get to lvl 20. I joined my guild, Knights of Shadowpeak, while I was wandering in the wilderness, literally and figuratively, in the Crystal Desert. Running was prevalent, but I wanted to do things rightly. I did not even have a max damage bow until I was given one (+5 Energy longbow) by a guild mate. (I still refer to it as the "Gift".) For quite a while, I still mostly henched, to cap skills. I considered this to be personal, and did not want to enlist aid for it. Gradually I began to grow comfortable with my guild, and helped and received help with various missions and capping certain skills. And I began to PUG when my guild mates were in Cantha and/or Elona. I got lucky with a PUG that started in Thunderhead and went all the way to Abbadon's Mouth. My guildmates and I finished Hell's Precipice. They are so good; they blow through everything. I thought I was reasonably good. Then we did Defend Droknar's Forge. What a rude awakening, lol! I was worse than useless. I panicked, ran the wrong way into additional mobs, aggroing everything in sight, forgot to bring a rez (before, in previous missions, they had even told me not to bring it as I wouldn't need it), got killed repeatedly, etc., etc., etc. Very humbling. The first step towards wisdom is to admit you know nothing. They suggested some build modifications, and we succeeded on our third attempt.

Now, as to my Assassin: you are undoubtedly correct on all points. I was impatient, and got to Kaineng City for the skills as soon as I could. With a bow, he can contribute and survive, in spite of his level, in most situations he encounters at this point. However, now, with his new Cruel Golden Daggers of Fortitude, req 12, he is having a rough time. He will only hench until he becomes minimally competent, which may take quite a while. The lesson with my Ranger is not lost on me, namely, that the journey to Mastery has only just begun with the acquisition of a wide selection of skills.

I have said all that to say this: I am a novice, struggling for a minimum level of competence, and realizing every day just how complex the considerations for play in this game are, and how much I have to learn. It is a daunting task, even with one or two characters. I am in awe of those who are so masterful at this game that they are "running out of things to do"! The kind of ability I am now seeking transcends my skillbar and equipment. You get my drift?

Thank you for your advice; please feel free to further advise me as you see fit.

TheRaven · Mar 05, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolakoski

I have said all that to say this: I am a novice, struggling for a minimum level of competence, and realizing every day just how complex the considerations for play in this game are, and how much I have to learn. It is a daunting task, even with one or two characters. I am in awe of those who are so masterful at this game that they are "running out of things to do"! The kind of ability I am now seeking transcends my skillbar and equipment. You get my drift?

Hi there, Kolaloski. You sound like a kindred spirit. I'm in the same position. I've been playing for about 6 months. I haven't yet reached a lot of the elite areas mainly because I've been playing a variety of characters and doing the low level stuff over and over again in each game with different professions.

I too want to contribute to the team in each pug I join. I feel that any rewards I receive should be the result of my skills and not from a run by a buddy. My guild usually offers to help run beginners thru missions and quests, but I've always declined. I'm willing to help out others that need it but I prefer to earn my mission completion rewards myself.

I always hench a mission that I've never seen before. I don't think it's fair to drag down a pug that usually knows just where to go and what to do to complete it. I like to explore new areas alone and take my time learning the path. Unfortunately, I did that this weekend with the Unwaking Waters mission for the first time. I grabbed a few heroes and henchies and headed into the mission. Once in there I discovered real people!!! ACKKK!! OOPS!

Dang co-op missions!

Anyways, if you'd like some semi-competent company on your learning journey, look me up in-game. I'm not the best player out there but most pugs that I've joined have considered me an asset to the team rather than a hinderance.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 05, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

In my view, it's not that PuG's are dead or that no one PuG's anymore or that PuG's can no longer be fun.

The issue is that people, generally, aren't as good at playing with others because the game has lessened the necessity for grouping with others.

Three campaigns into the game, people now can easily decide whether to spend time looking for a PuG or pressing onward with their improved Henchmen and/or Heroes.

Once ANet gave us the ability to "direct" Henchmen with the flag controls, the reliability of Henchies improved significantly.

With the advent of Heroes in the latest chapters the improvement is even more pronounced.

Some will say, "Oh! Not the tired old argument that Heroes/Henchies hurt PuG'ing!" But, what, pray tell, would the improved AI impact upon other than PuG'ing?

I can only judge how my game has changed and extrapolate from there. I combine that with my observations of others and arrive at the conclusion:

Heroes/improved Henchies reduce the likelihood of PuG'ing across the board.

And less PuG'ing means people become unaccustomed to working and dealing with each other.

This isn't an absolute situation, there are plenty of exceptions, but it is a general game trend.

Playing with other players is significantly different than playing solo with AI help. The skill sets are different and the need for coordination much more important. The whole concept of teamwork becomes readily apparent.

PuG'ing has never had the pride of place in any online game that I have ever played, starting in my early days of DAoC and on to many others.

PuG'ing will always take a back seat to grouping with friends and guildees; and now, more often than not: heroes and improved henchmen.

So, PuG'ing has dropped down at least a notch, and that's a shame because it decreases the opportunities to make new friends and acquaintances with in the game world.

Scythe Of Thunder · Mar 05, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I have a tendency to hero/hench my way through the easy quests and missions of the game purely because it is alot faster to build a group to get through the mission. I have been gaming with most of my guild since the betas so I do a bunch of stuff with them. When PUGing it I tend to form groups as I find I have a higher rate of success picking up the characters who may not be the classes wanted by everyone else and just filling in the rest from there.

I get most of my negativity towards PUGs from the fact that they are set into cookie cutter groups (a tank, nuker, MM, healer, ect.) and dismiss other builds (healing rits, sins, paragons, mesmers, ect.)

I have had a bunch of good groups of PUGs and I have had bad groups where the monk rage quits the first time someone dies